Patrick Kelley, an accidental entrepreneur and founder of Critical Path Security, discussed his journey from rural America to a career in cybersecurity.
Guest: Patrick Kelley, Critical Path Security
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmkelley/
Host: Dr. Deborah Heiser
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/deborah-heiser-phd
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Episode Introduction
If this is your first time listening, you are in for a treat. Today we have Patrick Kelly with us. If you have listened before, you'll know that we bring on people to talk about midlife. Some of that's great, some of it's stuff to be wary of. Patrick's going to tell us a little bit about both. Patrick is an accidental entrepreneur. He's the founder of critical path security, and he's an expert for 11 alive and NBC News. He's also been a mentor with The Mentor Project for about four years now, and I'll tell you - he's a person who when he says yes to do something, he does it.
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Cybersecurity with Patrick Kelley | After 40 Podcast with Dr. Deborah Heiser
Speaker 1 0:00
You here with me today. If this is your first time listening, you are in for a treat. Today. We have Patrick Kelly with us. If you have listened before, you'll know that we bring on people to talk about, to affect when you're in midlife. Some of that's great, some of it's stuff to be wary of today. Patrick's going to tell us a little bit about both. Patrick is an accidental entrepreneur. He's the founder of critical path security, and he's an expert for 11 alive and NBC News. He's also been a mentor with the mentor project for about four years now, and I'll tell you from knowing Patrick, that he's a person who when he says yes to do something, he does it, and he's one of the busiest guys I know, so it's not an easy thing for him to do, but somehow he's able to have a hat all the time. And the other thing is that he's driven by empathy. He's somebody who really is able to take a look at somebody else and see what it's like to be in their shoes. I can just I can see it and feel it when I'm interacting with Patrick, and how he's able to do that. And we all need people like Patrick in our lives who make the world a better place. So thank you for coming on, Patrick, welcome.
Unknown Speaker 1:23
Thank you. I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 1 1:27
So Patrick, tell me and everyone else about what you mean by being an accidental entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 1:36
Yeah, you know something that just happened upon me as I was growing up, you know, I was born in rural America, and I was raised in rural America. My first jobs were very physical and menial, mowing the grass at the post office and cleaning the trash cans out at the Department of Family and Children's Services and a lot of things like that. There's a DNA that's in the culture of the towns that I grew up in that was, it was more physical, it was more farming and more, you know, being tied directly into that community, that being presented with opportunities to travel the world and be involved in cybersecurity and interact, you know, like emphasis, like MIT and Berkeley and Stanford were just things that growing up were just way beyond my wildest imagining. But that work ethic, you know, that was based baked in Abu by my parents and my grandparents and how you you know, you do what you're supposed to do, and you do what you need to it built that fabric in to where I think it helped me capture opportunities that are really quite rare from someone from my background.
Speaker 1 2:53
I love that. And you know what? I think that a lot of people don't even understand the value in that, in the physical going out and doing things. I You said mowing lawns. I had, like, a lawn mowing business. Also I'd go mowing lawns around the neighborhood. And it was, I had to in my own house. So I get that I totally understand what you're talking about, and it does make you think about things. But here went from physical to cyber security, that's a big leap, like one is very physically motivated, and the other one isn't how to make that leap. You know, I
Speaker 2 3:34
I've always strived to be intelligent, because that's actually surprisingly hard to do. Even now in a lot of rural communities, the resources that you have presented to you don't really lead in that direction. We're still very resource poor in rural parts to United States and and I really wanted to break break. I wanted to go and do things that were just crazy and different, and want to be smart. I mean, if I'm if I'm really being blunt about it. And I remember this very I'd owned an IT company a little, managed IT company for a while, and I was very, very proud of it, and we did a great job. But there was this movie, and I know some people here are probably seen it, but good, yeah, and there are some, there are some correlations that hit me very strongly between, you know, Robin and Damon and their interactions and the backstory behind it. And so I realized, you know, and this is a fun learning tip for those who are listening that for quite some time Berkeley, they used to put all of their video lectures, all of their video lectures, online a week after they were taught in the classroom and they were put there so that students that were enrolled there could go back and review them in case I missed something. Fact, I was able to watch about five or six years worth of course studies across many different disciplines, from computer science to psychology, sociology, cognitive neuroscience, peace and conflict studies, classic literature, and my head just exploded in a most amazing way, because there's, there's just this fountain of information that, you know, that I just I had right in front of, and that led me into California to where I was given amazing opportunities in cyber security, and then they led Back here to where, you know, I've been able to be around the most brilliant minds that I've ever known for 25 years. And each day I kind of work, I kind of look around and the heck am I doing here? But that, I think that's kind of been life for me, is and there's these opportunities that are presented at just these moments and take advantage of them. And you look around and you kind of go, what's going on? This is not where I thought I would be in the most incredible way possible. So basically,
Speaker 1 6:13
you've always been a person who says, Yes, you know, you're very busy. It was the pandemic. And you and I got on a call, and I said, Hey, would you like to do a whole lot more work, and it's for giving back to others. Would you like to mentor others for free in your spare time? You didn't have spare time, but you said, yes, so that's never stopped for you. So you were young, and you were looking for those open doors, and in midlife, open doors are it sounds like very effective to you, you're going right through them. Is that how you are?
Unknown Speaker 6:49
Well, mentoring, entering is different for me.
Speaker 2 6:55
Mentioned some of the upbringing. And when I was younger, the school class would drop me off in front of the Department of Family and Children service building in my town, and my mom worked there. She is a caseworker. Each day I would, I would be dropped off there, and I was young. I was, think, nine or 10 at the time, and I would play in the lobby with the other kids that were there, and their parents were there, getting support or or their case, managed all these things. I remember that everybody really gave those kids a lot of attention, and the floors were always dirty and the toys were always broken. I started relating that, you know, there's this belief that these kids were broken, and I think a little bit that I felt that way, being like where I was from and where I and where I dreamed, you know, that I was going to go, and that there are people that came along in that path, and they think they help, you know, you don't, don't get from where I was to where I am, Having a lot of people that didn't have any time, a lot of people that you know couldn't make the time, somehow they did. So mentoring for me is
Unknown Speaker 8:12
very much a trying,
Speaker 2 8:16
humbly, you know, to go back and try to help those and I've been doing it, I don't know, 20 something years. You know, to children's Haven is something I'm incredibly involved in today, very similar situations. So mentoring, you just don't get where I am without it. Still being mentored at 47 because there's still so much I have to learn.
Speaker 1 8:43
You know, I love that you say that because it's true. Everybody has mentors and needs mentors, and you never stop being one or needing one, ever in your life. Did you have one when you went into cybersecurity? How did you land in in that field? And were mentors involved in that
Speaker 2 9:09
cyber security before it really existed, like we were doing things and with security and it, but it wasn't this. And so Darris, gentleman, Rick Hudson, I was gonna as a kid, 22 and, you know, I started where most of us did at the time, which is probably breaking into systems that we shouldn't, and poking, poking things that we shouldn't. And I remember Rick came along, and we were working at this company called Encanto at the time, and he was so candid and so caring about, you know, really, really smart, but, you know, you need some guidance, or you're gonna go to jail. And it was very, it was very kind, but it was very matter of fact. So when it, when it came to getting into cybersecurity and truly going that direction, Rick was the very first one. And then there was this gentleman Gentile amongst Santosa, I hope he, I hope he listens to this. But I was asked to go to California and work in just typical generalist it position. And I interviewed with this guy named ganjar, and he actually fought for me to be placed on the cyber security team at this company called Big podge. And to be fair, like my, my entire world just changed. I've been around security and the time between and done stuff that ganjar was very is very diligent with with the rest of the group of this guy needs to be here. There's a plan for him here. I drove gangs. Are crazy, but, but I hope you're assessing those how much, how much of it so
Speaker 1 10:49
well, that's kind of a cool turnaround for you. You know that you have somebody that it's almost like having a guardian angel in a way, but wrong direction go this way, and I know most people, myself included, have gone through life. And when we reflect, we can say, Wow, yes, this country stepped in a certain time. We can usually all think of a person who may have stepped in that we didn't even realize at the time was mentoring us, or that was guiding us or took an interest in us until after we think about it, and that's pretty cool that you did that. So tell them. Tell me now you've been involved in cybersecurity for how many years? Like 20 years or something, 2027,
Unknown Speaker 11:39
wow. So altogether,
Speaker 1 11:43
what should we know like you? Now, I asked that with knowing that you, I have sat in on some of your talks that were absolutely earth shaking. You spoke to a bunch of kids in Argentina, and I was on that call, and I was alone, as were all of the parents and all of the kids that were on that call. It was so cool, so but just tell me, like, as midlifers, what do we need to know? What are like the top 10 things that we should know about cybersecurity, that we they're good, or that we should be wary about.
Speaker 2 12:23
I'm gonna throw a twist on this one, because I think,
Speaker 3 12:28
I think terrifying everyone has been pretty well played.
Speaker 2 12:35
I think I think when I turn on the news that even at this point, I'm a little terrified. Here's a neat place we are, especially as midlifers. And I'm going to throw a spin on another controversial topic as well, which is like chat, GPT llms and things like this. They provide this very interesting way of someone midlife or that may be looking at a career change. You know, maybe they've been have a guy here that was a pastry chef or something years and now he's one of the most brilliant penetration testers I've ever seen. But resources such as like, you know, chat GPT and these learning language model these. These are these llms. They provide these opportunities to learn things so much faster than than we ever have been able to do before. And they even give you the opportunity to request it to be different, like, I can't be the only room that was the only person that was in a classroom and, and, you know, I had to, I had to get through it, and, but I didn't understand the way that, you know, the professor or the teacher was, was delivering the information, right? There's always that disconnect and communication between people, and especially with with complex topics like GPT and open AI and these other things that are out there, you know, it has the ability to phrase things in ways are more relative to you. And so when it comes to cybersecurity, the first thing I think about right now is that
Unknown Speaker 14:23
as as the threat
Speaker 2 14:25
challenges that we're facing get so much harder, the ability for individuals to go and learn and to be a part of this and become very successful and become Brilliant contributors to this space is really greater than it's ever been before. You don't have to sit in a coffee house like I did for hundreds of hours watching, you know, taped over, you know, lectures from the other side of the coast. If you can sit down and ask GPT to, like, teach you about quantum physics. And, you know, in a weekend, you probably have a pretty good beat on it. So I think what I think about cybersecurity, one things are things are scary. Facts are getting more complex. It is getting harder to defend. However, I think the barrier of entry for people that want to get into this field is actually gotten easier. Oh,
Speaker 1 15:20
that's good. And is this a you mentioned a pastry chef changing his career, which is awesome. Is cyber security something that is that typical for somebody to say, have a career for a while and then switch it midway? You know, in their lives, I
Speaker 2 15:41
think it's getting more common, you know. And I believe a lot of the drivers can be financial, though, I would strongly advise that no one get into cyber security for the money. It pays well, but that money is relative, you know. And when you're doing 12 or 14 hours a day to to defend you know your your organization or defend the customer. You know the money. The money loses its luster. You know your heart has to be in the mission. In fact, I used to say that cyber security is less of a professional, more of a calling. It has to be something that you're really you're really bought into.
Unknown Speaker 16:30
Oddly enough,
Speaker 2 16:33
my my manager at a sock it used to be army, infantry, infantry. He only got into cybersecurity towards the very, very end of his career in the army. The pastry chef that works here, which is, you know, it's amazing how much talent that you have from working in a line in the kitchen and having to cooperate with others and work together a team. How those just align so amazingly, into into working in cybersecurity. Fact, our project manager, one of our one of our project managers here was, was actually a surgical tech at our bus job, so, but she is very she has the skill set of going in high stress and having to be very specific and very accurate in holding a whole team together in a very, very tough situation, right? It's quite life threatening at times, and surgical work in the those skill sets really translate very well. You just have to make them relate so that they can basically, you just have to create the bridge and the team here. And there's a great job building bridges.
Speaker 1 18:02
I can see that, you know, you made some good points that I wouldn't have put together. You know, there are skills that we gather and areas of expertise that we gather through our lives, and sometimes they're very well translatable to something else, you know, that may look and completely different, like going from pastry you know, to something in tech is sounds like a big leap, but now that you've explained it, pastry chef, cyber security, the way that you talked about it, in the same kind of line, in the same way, makes it very easy to understand. Because I think that most people, when they think of cybersecurity, it's something else somewhere. You can't see it, you don't know what it is. It's out there. And most people like La, la, la, I don't want to know anything about it, because it sounds scary, but you said that, you know, it's very stressful, and it can be very tense. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Unknown Speaker 19:07
Oh, yes,
Speaker 2 19:09
cyber security is incredibly stressful. It easily one of the most stressful I could have ever imagined being in syndrome, for one, is something that I really like to like to highlight, because it's something that we in the industry really have to get our heads around very, very quickly. Imposter syndrome is a real interesting bit. I'm sure everybody's mostly familiar with it. Being a someone that has imposter syndrome, they already struggle with validating, like, why they should be here, and so they will typically work a lot harder. They will commit a lot harder than the people around them, and they will become overachievers. And through all of that effort, like they keep raising the bar, raising the bar, raising the bar. Well, burnout happens, you know, because they're they're they're burning so hot, and they're putting in so much effort, then when they burn out, it validates their imposter syndrome. And so now this person that was more than than more than qualified to be or more than validated to be here. I struggle with this every day myself. They will burn themselves out on the quest to feel like they belong. Now, you know, their their confidence is broken, their belief, you know, and what they can do is broken, so we really have to get in front of that. Something I think helps is,
Unknown Speaker 20:48
as an employer, I 40,
Speaker 2 20:52
and it's controversial, but I don't, yeah, so I don't like, again, this is controversial, but I don't like to pay out PTO. I want people to take their PTO. Because, you know, if you, if you have ever sat in one of Jocko willex talks, you know, one thing that he mentions is that, you know, a well rested team is the most productive team.
Speaker 1 21:16
Paid Time Off. Yes, their PTO time off?
Speaker 2 21:20
Yes, I do. And actually, I play this song on the main floor. It's closing time by semi Sonic. I don't know if anybody heard it, but you don't. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. And the rule when I when I fired that song up on the floor, is that everyone has until the end of the song. I had all their stuff in their bag packed and be out the exit door before the song finishes.
Unknown Speaker 21:44
Wow. I think everybody's
Unknown Speaker 21:45
going to want to come work for
Speaker 2 21:49
you. I don't. I don't. I don't want 60 hour workers. I won't really, really sharp 40 hour workers. And I don't want someone that's here six months. I want somebody that's here to turn users? Yeah. So I know that people don't get into cyber security because they want to be mediocre at their job. You do that anywhere else. So I already know that they're that they're accelerating themselves so thinking important part of leadership and building sustainable teams and dealing with the stress of cyber that someone has to come along and press the brake pedal. It's a it's okay to go. But now we need, now we need to take a minute, and we need to breathe, and we need to just kind of be in this spot, and then we go again.
Speaker 1 22:33
I think that's brilliant. I love the way you think. I love the way you work. You know, I've had the pleasure of getting to see you how you operate, and you have a calm about you that I think even if there's something critical happening, you're very calm. And a leader who looks at the mental health and well being of their employees is going to have a very well run organization. And I think that that's really wonderful that you said that, you know, that's an insight that comes from having lived on the other side, usually, that a person has had those 60 hour weeks living imposter syndrome, had a little bit of burnout here and there. And I love that you have that wisdom and you are able to say, no, no, no, it's us now, and I'm going to run things the way that I know they should run. So what a refreshing thing to know that there are organizations being run like that, and that it's something that people should ask for. Also wish I had known
Speaker 2 23:41
sooner, because, you know, I'm a very big fan of kind of Extreme Ownership, and if, if you're gonna you're gonna have, if you're going to accept accolades, accolades, you have to admit fault. And I don't think that. I don't think that's always been a skill that I had starting building startups. Is inherently incredibly stressful, and you're not always calm. I can't even sort of mention, or really even count, all the days we came in here and the plumbing was that's in the floor, and part of the building is on fire, and like, there's so many, I mean, truly, there's so many things that then driving branding for a pandemic, you're really worried. You know, are your will your staff survive? Will their family live? You know, are you making decisions that's going to put them in harm's way? And how do you reconcile that, if something happens to them in I'm not the sole owner of critical path, so I have some thoughts that I have to have, to have almost compel others to go along with as well. I'm glad that I'm here now. If I were to go back and tell someone, tell myself 20 something years ago, it would have been everything's going to be okay, because There literally is no other choice.
Speaker 3 25:09
Now that's good advice. And you know what that's good for moving forward too.
Speaker 1 25:16
You know good advice all around well, Patrick, I hope that people will check out critical path security and tell me where people can find you online and anywhere else, so that they can look up more about you, other than the mentor project, you can check out too, but you have an amazing bio.
Speaker 2 25:38
Thank you. I think the best place to find me is probably on LinkedIn. I It really depends on what you're trying to find on Twitter there, but I'm very much about my personal life. So you're going to hear more about my thoughts on mental health. Probably a lot of pictures with me and my dog decompressing after a long day. You're going to see a lot of dog pictures, but from a professional mentoring point of view, it's probably going to be LinkedIn, and I'm not too hard to find it's me with a newspaper.
Speaker 1 26:13
Okay, well, Patrick, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. We are here to make sure that people 40 and older understand that there are things to look forward to love the wisdom that you dropped for all of us today. So anyway, I will be putting in the show notes ways that people can find you, and I will also be adding in the transcript as well. So thank you, Patrick, for joining today. You're amazing, And I'm fortunate to know you.
Speaker 2 26:44
Thank you, I feel the same way I hope you have a wonderful day in the in the listeners out there. Thank you for taking the time. Take care. Take care.