From a Fulbright scholar arriving in the U.S. with big dreams, to becoming a top executive in global pharmaceuticals, Dr. Frank L. Douglas has spent his life breaking barriers
Guest: Frank Douglas, Safe Haven Dialogues
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-frank-l-douglas/
Host: Dr. Deborah Heiser
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/deborah-heiser-phd
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Episode Introduction
From a Fulbright scholar arriving in the U.S. with big dreams, to becoming a top executive in global pharmaceuticals, Dr. Frank L. Douglas has spent his life breaking barriers and reframing challenges. In this powerful episode, we explore his journey from Guyana to the C-suite, the discrimination he faced and transformed, and how he’s helping others do the same through his reframing methodology and his organization, Safe Haven Dialogues.
We talk about connection, mentorship, innovation, and what it means to find purpose after 40. Dr. Douglas also shares the practical steps anyone can take to reframe problems into solutions that uplift not just themselves—but entire communities.
Tune in to hear the story of a true Renaissance man who’s still changing the world, one perspective at a time.
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Resources
Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream: https://a.co/d/e9kBNC6
Safe Haven Dialogues: https://www.safehavendialogues-llc.com/
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Reframing | A Conversation with Frank Douglas | After 40 Podcast with Dr. Deborah Heiser
Speaker 1 0:00
Welcome back to after 40 I'm so excited today we have Dr Frank Douglas with us, and he is a renowned physician scientist and biotech leader with over 30 years of experience in healthcare and pharmaceuticals. Dr Douglas was a professor at MIT and the founding executive director of the MIT Center for Biomedical Innovation. His numerous honors include the black history makers award global pharmaceutical RMD director of the year, and GQ, rock stars of science, a passionate advocate for diversity, equity and innovation. Dr Douglas continues to shape the future of science and medicine through leadership, mentorship and visionary thinking. Thank you for coming on today. Dr Douglas,
Speaker 2 0:48
well, thank you for the invitation and looking forward to our conversation. Me
Speaker 1 0:52
too. You have a fascinating history life and contribution. I couldn't include it all in the bio, but I really would. I'm hoping that you can set the stage by telling me about your journey from Guyana to leading global pharmaceutical efforts, because it's remarkable. So if you can tell us the aspects of that journey, especially in the second half of life, that define who you are today, I'd love to hear it.
Speaker 2 1:21
It's interesting. Every so often I'm asked by the young, young students, how did I prepare to get to where I am? And I tell them, I'll tell you my story, and then you will realize that there was no way I prepared to get to where I am, I just follow the path and wherever that path led I followed. I came to America in 1963 on a Fulbright scholarship as an undergraduate, I went to Lehigh University. I was a Lehigh engineer, then on to Cornell, where I did my PhD, and after a very brief stint in the industry at Xerox, I actually went back and did an MD. So the first part of my life was actually in medicine, and during that time, I was discovered by the pharmaceutical industry and invited to take a sabbatical at secret guy, which is the day Novartis. And it just turned out that it felt right all the things that I had done, I was a physical chemist, I had done clinical research. I i was much to their surprise that I my fellowship is actually in neuro endocrinology, so they were quite surprised that I knew a lot about the nervous system, although most of the work that I had been doing was in the cardiovascular system. So suddenly I was at home. So I spent the next 2024, years in the pharmaceutical industry, and in spite of many challenges, discrimination, Rose actually to be the first black person on the Board of Management in the C suite of a top three global pharmaceutical company, Aventis is now today, Sanofi, and so I was the executive vice president on the Board of Management responsible for research development and Regulatory Affairs at Aventis. When I retired from the industry, I then went to MIT, unfortunately, which actually was my dream job after retirement, unfortunately, a discrimination issue caused me to be very disappointed with MIT, and I actually resigned and protest, did go to University of Akron to set up an institute the and I spent five years, six years actually getting that Institute, doing the Austin Institute of bio innovation in Akron, and retired a second time, and then was called to run a small biotech company, which was really quite quite exciting, because it was a new approach. It was a therapeutic vaccine, actually, and a very new approach with the treatment of HPV. And unfortunately, it was the branch of a Taiwanese company which ran out of money, and so we had to close the study that we were doing. Unfortunately, we went back into went into my third retirement. And during that time, I became quite involved in the issues of discrimination, and began to realize that, as a matter of fact, a great deal of my success was due to something that I was doing, which I call reframing. And I wrote a book on that, and my passion now is basically sharing that methodology with as many individuals as possible to help them deal with not only issues of discrimination, but conflicts generally
Speaker 1 5:42
you are a true Renaissance man. I mean, there is no other person I've ever met who's done as much as you have and so successfully. I would love for you to tell me a little bit about reframing, because this is something that you started to look at after 40, you started to really take a look at this. And when we spoke before, everything you said really resonated with the way that I think of mentorship and reframing in other ways, I love the way you define it. So if you can tell us all about reframing and how you came about to think about it,
Speaker 2 6:19
if I may tell you my origin story as briefly as possible. After I completed my PhD, I went to work in Xerox, and for three months I couldn't get a good project. One day, a young white man joined the group, and by the end of his first week, he was put on one of the most exciting projects that we had. I went to see my manager to discuss it, and was just stunned to see the surprise on his face when I said to him, you know, Steve, don't think of me as though I am Frank. Think of me as though I am Bob. And he looked at me and he said, you know, you're right. Bob has been here a week, and I've put him on the archery project? I was furious. I ran out of his office down the hallway to the office of the senior vice president to give him another example of my being discriminated against. Well, two years later, I'm in medical school, and I was reflecting on this and realized that I had made two errors. The first error was that Dr tribus to see the Vice President, had hired three young, black PhDs that summer. I being one of them to join the single the one black PhD that Xerox had in research and development at the time. So it was probably more important to him that Frank Douglas would do well when it was to Frank Douglas, the second error that I made was I was not clear on what my desired outcome was, and my desired outcome was not for the senior vice president to have tough words with my boss. I wanted a good project. Well, in 2019 as I was writing my memoirs, actually 2018 and I was writing that episode, something occurred to me, and that was that I had actually learned from that episode, because from that point onwards, I began to do what I then called reframing, by which I made the following, whenever I had a problem, I would look for what I called a better problem to solve. And a better problem to solve was a problem that was was related to the problem that I had, but which was shared by others, so that if I could solve that problem, then others would also benefit. So that was a better problem to solve. And I really recognize that throughout my career, that is what I had been doing. I had been reframing. And so as I sat looking at the George Floyd murder on TV, it suddenly occurred to me that, you know, with the people standing on the sideline trying their darndest to get shopping, to take his knee off of George Floyd's neck? What if they knew about reframing? Would they have approached it differently? Would they have done something different? Would the results have been different? I don't know. So that led me to establish my company safe haven dialogs with the intent to help individuals and organizations that when there was an issue, to focus on the individual and to help that individual to find a better problem to solve which would not only take care of the problem of the aggrieved, but help the aggrieved to go from the aggrieved eye to the productive we
Speaker 1 10:12
love, I love that you have been able to reframe and and to make a New picture out of things that have been in your life and that have been in all of our lives. How can others do what you have done? How can Is there a practical approach that people can take to reframe
Speaker 2 10:33
Yes, there is, and in fact, one of the things that you do, and in fact, when we first talked, we discussed this reframing is looking at things from a different perspective, and that's what mentors do. Mentors help us to see things from a different perspective. And I have four simple things to do when you want to refrain. The first thing is to focus on, what is your desired outcome, not today, but a year from now, a year from now, what is it you would have loved to have achieved? The second thing is what I call the equity question. Ask, are there others who have the same problem, but are being treated differently? Interestingly enough, even though that is a problem for you personally, it is nonetheless a potential for another perspective, third. I call it the inclusion tip, look for individuals who have similar problems, not identical, but similar problems, because they are your potential allies, and individuals with whom you can have a discussion, which, again, might help you to see another perspective.
Speaker 3 11:59
And finally, look at the ally, the inclusive tip, and
Speaker 2 12:06
ask yourself the question, what is the problem? If I were to address it, it would actually cover the problem that I have, the problem my allies have. If you can find that problem. There is your reframe problem and your reframe solution.
Speaker 1 12:28
Wow, that's that's something that we can all do. It's it, you know, we're built to have a better ability to see things from another perspective once we hit midlife and beyond. You know, our world sort of opens up and we're able to take a different perspective on things. Do you think that this is something that is easier for most people, 40 and older to engage in, to help to make this change, to help to reframe things, to get others to reframe i
Speaker 2 13:05
i think it depends on each individual, because people have supported sometimes are so set in their ways and are so so focused on what has worked for them in the past that they have difficulty letting Go of that and doing something different and younger individuals are sometimes so sure that no one else knows the problem that they see, and only they can understand it. So it is having the discussion you said something to me that has stayed with me, and I think is just wonderful. And with your permission, I will use it as part of reframing, that when you are thinking of reframing, look to your left and look to your right. And I really love that, because the individuals that you're going to see, they are having experiences that may be relevant for you, so look to your left, look to your right and talk with those individuals, not necessarily asking them to solve your problem, but to engage them and listen to how they are approaching it, because that might help you to see a different perspective and to reframe. So I think all ages can do it. I love
Speaker 1 14:27
that. I love the that you first of all, I love that you are talking about reframing the way that you are, and it's a form of connection, and connection has come up in the United States and around the world, really as an issue. You know, there's social prescribing now for people to get more connected with others, because we're not really engaging the way we can and should at all ages. But most particularly, it's an epidemic among those who are older that, you know, they're starting to do social prescribing, to get people to connect. Your reframing is really something that it has a root and connection. And should we look to our left and look to our right? Not only are we going to connect, but we'll get a visual on how others think and feel about things as well. I think that it's very timely what you're talking about. It's just the right time to be thinking about this, because when we connect, it's a two way street. You know, we're giving our insights and getting the insights from someone else. So tell me a little bit about your organization, because you work on this with safe haven. Tell me about it.
Speaker 2 15:44
Yeah, we primarily focus on doing workshops, webinars and workshops. The book, which I wrote, which is about titled until you walk in my field, reframing methodology to overcome systemic discrimination is the subtitle in that book the first 25 pages or so. The first section deals with the methodology. You know how you how you frame those two the steps of the methodology. But the second section of the book are 18 case studies. We interviewed individuals who had different problems at work, and we took them through the reframing exercise to help them to find a better problem to solve. And so we do workshops. Some workshops go over one or two of those cases. Other workshops, the participants, who come from one organization, they come forward with a problem or two for us to develop and to present in the workshop and discuss and try to find a better problem to solve, and so a reframe solution that they can use? Is
Speaker 1 17:10
this something that people can use in companies as well as in their personal lives? Absolutely
Speaker 2 17:16
no. Absolutely. The fascinating thing is, in a discussion I had recently with the formerly a CEO C suite executive, and we were discussing some of the changes that he had made, and I was smiling, and he said, Why are you smiling? I said, the reason I'm smiling is that you are discussing some of the things which I actually did when I was the head of research and development and I changed from R D to what I call the network centric organization. By so doing, I actually helped the scientists to look at problems differently. And so we were practicing reframing. And so instead of taking the usual approach they would normally take, they began to look at it from a network centric perspective, and began to get different perspectives.
Speaker 1 18:27
I love that you know you're really also looking at the emotion involved. Most people look at behavior, and we feel right so you can have a behavior, but it might not match with an emotion, and you're matching those two. And I love that. I also love that you have never stopped. Your whole entire life has been a reframe for yourself. Now you're teaching others to reframe as well and in a broader, global way. Please tell me what are the it sounds like you have two books. Can you give me the titles of your
Speaker 2 19:04
books? Yes, the first one is actually a memoir. It's entitled defining moments of a free man from a black stream. Now the title is actually my name. It turns out Frank is Celtic and means Freemason or free man, and Douglas is Fauci and means from a black Street. And it's my memoirs, you know, talking from growing up in Guyana in poor circumstances, and the things that I learned during that time and then facing a new culture in America and those challenges, both in academia and in industry. The second book, this is one I described. The first version of the book was actually entitled addressing systemic discrimination by reframing the problem. And I was participating in a workshop with 17 other authors in which we were discussing each other's books and making helpful comments. And one of them said, you know, you should change the title of your book. And I said, why? He said, Well, on the second or third page, you give this great example of walking, of someone not walking in another person's shoes, and as a radically abused that expression a couple of times in your book. And when you think of reframing in some aspects, it is indeed walking in someone else's shoes. And so I took the advice and changed the title.
Unknown Speaker 20:51
Where can people find these two books?
Speaker 2 20:55
Amazon, Barnes and Noble those are the best places to find them.
Speaker 1 21:00
And tell me, what is the website? Where can people find you outside of your books, they
Speaker 2 21:06
can find me on safe haven dialogs. Hyphen, LLC, so if you go to www dot safe haven dialogs, hyphen, llc.com, you will see the website, wonderful.
Unknown Speaker 21:22
This has been such a pleasure.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai